It's All In The Details! - w/Jeremy Harding

**🎙️ Podcast Show Notes:

 “Detailing, Nanotech & Profit: Turning Chemistry into Cash Flow”

In this week’s Mind Wrench Podcast, we sit down with veteran detailer and collision pro Jeremy Harding, a guy who’s lived through every phase of paint and polish—from the old rotary buffer days to today’s high-tech ceramic coatings. If you’ve ever wondered why these coatings seem bulletproof (and sometimes like a real pain in the butt during repair), Jeremy breaks it all down in plain English—what they are, how to work with them, and how to turn them into money makers, not time wasters.

Jeremy shares how coatings built with nanotechnology are changing everything about prep, paint, and profit. These slick, tough-as-glass coatings resist chemicals, UV, and scratches—but they also mean you can’t just “buff ‘em off” anymore. He explains exactly how to tell if you’re dealing with a coating, how to safely remove it, and why rushing the recoat or waxing process can cost you in dieback or adhesion issues later. Most importantly, he reveals how the detailing mindset—attention to detail, patience, and process—can become a real growth tool for your shop, not just an afterthought.

If you think detailing is “just cleanup,” this episode might change your mind for good.

🔥 4 Big Takeaways:

1️⃣ Know your surface. Modern ceramics act like armor on clearcoat—identifying and removing them right prevents costly redos.

2️⃣ Timing matters. Never rush protection on fresh paint; let it cure at least 90 days to avoid long-term problems.

3️⃣ Train for passion, not position. A curious, detail-loving tech can turn a “side gig” into a solid revenue stream.

4️⃣ Detailing = differentiation. Shops that master coatings and offer premium protection services stand out, earn trust, and boost margins.

This one’s packed with real-world wisdom, a few hard truths, and plenty of practical steps to help your collision business grow smarter, more profitable—and more memorable!

GUEST CONTACT

Jeremy Harding – jeremy@artekya.com

Website – https://www.nasiol.com/     LinkedIn – https://tinyurl.com/mpnkhtjx

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Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome, Ratings, And Show Setup
• 2:08 Jeremy’s Roots In Paint And Detailing
• 7:24 PPG Training, Chemistry, And Early Waterborne
• 10:53 Coaching Ad Break And Host CTA
• 12:03 Meguiar’s Era And 3M Acquisition
• 16:40 RUPES Launch And Long-Throw Polishing
• 21:05 Enter Nasiol: Behind-The-Scenes Manufacturer
• 24:28 Nanocoatings Beyond Cars: Industrial Uses
• 27:20 Home And Hospitality Applications
• 29:12 Automotive Surfaces And Durability
• 32:07 Collision Prep: Removing Ceramic Coatings
• 36:15 Testing, Grit Choices, And Hydrophobics
• 39:10 Post-Refinish Timing: Wax, Sealant, Ceramic
• 43:20 Wraps, PPF, And Adhesive Interactions
• 45:43 Adding Detailing As A Shop Revenue Stream
• 49:35 Hiring For Passion And Raising Standards
• 52:00 Growth Keys: Relationships, Training, Network
• 56:00 Closing, SEMA Plans, And Contacts

Transcript

Rick: 0:00

This week, we're talking with a solid 25-year collision industry veteran with a different perspective and attention to detail. That's right, we're diving into the detail side of collision repair and nanotechnology. Jeremy Harding has spent his career from early beginnings in the paint shop to leadership positions with big brand names like McGuire's and Rupez, and now has a leading position with NASTIOL Nanocoatings, a global manufacturer of nanoceramic raw materials and coating systems. Welcome to the MindRink Podcast with your host, Rick Telegram, where minor adjustments produce major improvements in mind personal growth and fixed business and personal impact that will make a major impact in our success, next level growth, and quality data. Hey, what's up everybody? Welcome to the MindMex Podcast. I'm your host, Rick Silver. Thanks so much for stopping in. If you're a returning listener and haven't done so already, please take a minute and click the follow or subscribe button and then rate and review the show. When you rate and review the show, the algorithms for Apple, Spotify, Google Podcasts, iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, and all the other platforms will see that it's valuable and show it to more people that have never seen it before. And hopefully it can help them too. I would really, really, really appreciate your help sharing this word with your friends and family as well. And if you're a brand new listener, welcome. I hope you find something of value here that helps you in your personal or professional life as well. Please make sure to click the subscribe or follow button so you never miss another episode. If you've been listening to the show for a while, or been on the receiving end of my daily quote of the day emails, or maybe just catch my posts on Facebook or LinkedIn, you know I'm all about the quotes, right? If you'd like to start receiving my quote of the day emails, there's a link in the show notes to sign up. It's free and you can unsubscribe at any time. This week we're talking with a solid twenty-five-year collision industry veteran with a different perspective and attention to detail. That's right. We're diving into the detail side of collision repair and nanotechnology. Jeremy Harding has spent his career from early beginnings in the paint shop to leadership positions with big brand names like McGuire's and Rupa's, and now has a leading position with Nasiall Nanocoatings, a global manufacturer of nanoceramic raw materials and coating systems. So please help me in welcoming Jeremy to the Mindrange Podcast. Jeremy, welcome to the show.

Jeremy: 2:45

Hey Rick, thanks so much for having me. And I'm really looking forward to our conversation today.

Rick: 2:50

Absolutely. We had a uh we had a really great discovery call uh not long ago. So it's funny, Jeremy and I both have uh a lot of mutual friends in this business. Uh I've never met him before, but uh seems to be a really tuned-in guy. And um, we're recording this before SEMA. So those of you listening, uh, you're gonna be listening to this after CEMA ends, but he does have a uh a booth there uh for the nano coatings, and uh, I'm gonna go check that out while I'm at SEMA and uh get a little bit more immersed in that. So, anyways, um, so here we go. Um, Jeremy, uh, we did talk about your background on Discovery Call. You've got a very interesting background. You do you do lean towards the detail side, which led a great path for you. So if you could kind of just do a uh flyover on uh how you started, we'll catch you into this crazy business and uh where you're at now.

Jeremy: 3:42

Yeah, thanks, Rick. So I think a lot of this really comes from a passion of anything that had a motor, uh, you know, from a young age. So I was always interested in all of the the things regarding mechanics and you know, speed going fast and and all of that. So I think it was just part of my DNA. Um from an early age, you know, my my family was pretty involved in doing hands-on things and being mechanical and whatnot. And uh, you know, my grandfather actually used to do some restoration for Volkswagen Beatles and microbuses. And uh I somehow became a helper as part of the um repair process. You know, they they didn't have the best early, yeah, they didn't have the best corrosion resistance back in the uh back in those early days. So there was a lot of panel patching and bondo work that that typically happened. So uh from an early age, I was out there helping him do repairs on on those VWs. Uh, and that's where I learned how to wet sand and polish um you know, high-speed rotary single speed, you know, 1800 RPM was like the the low end for for any of the tools that we had, but um, you know, cornstarch for uh for the abrasive compound at certain stages and so on and so forth, lacquer, you know, Martin Senior paint. So we're talking real backyard stuff. That's when it all began.

Speaker 3: 5:14

Yeah.

Jeremy: 5:15

Um, then there was just kind of a natural progression. I I really got into uh cleaning and detailing and organizing. Um, it just was like a next step in the progression of you know, how do you do things related to automotive appearance? And uh, as most detailers do, they start with doing work for friends and family, and and next thing you know, it's referrals for paid work and it snowballs from there. So uh I actually started um taking money and started my my first detail business in 1991. Um so uh it's it's been something I've been doing for quite a long time and it led to a nice career uh throughout the throughout that the detail industry. Um I definitely did start with more of the bodywork side of things, but I found my passion was absolutely into detailing. So it was in the paintwork, it was in making things you know better than factory new. And um, so you know, I I ran a detail shop for a number of years. Um, sometimes we operated out of friends' garages, sometimes we did mobile work, um, but you know, we always had that passion for for detailing. Um, you know, I grew up in Massachusetts, western Massachusetts, and detailing season is kind of short. You know, yes, you you end up with cold weather, it's hard to detail. People don't want to pay for their vehicles to get detailed because on the way home it's gonna get covered in salt and slush and everything else anyway. So things really slow down. Uh, I had a uh a pattern where I would typically save up enough money to get myself through through the winter. Um, I would always work at the local ski area uh to help supplement my income. Um, but there was one season where I just didn't have enough put away. Uh, and I ended up going to work for the local PPG platinum distributor who I bought a lot of my products from uh for my detail chemicals, compounds, polishes, and whatnot. Um, so the arrangement there was that I would go through uh all of the PPG schools to learn the paint systems to be a tech rep. Um, so I got to know a lot of the folks at at PPG, uh especially the the people that ran the local BDC in Windsorlocks, Connecticut. Um so it's funny, you know, I started going to classes there in late 90s. Um and then um, you know, throughout my progression, I ended up teaching classes at the the Windsorlocht BDC and other locations as well. Well, that's awesome.

Rick: 8:06

Yeah, I I I spent a lot of time in the PPG uh classes as well through my job or career. So a lot of good education there. And I tell you, I got certificates all over the place from every class I've ever been in. And uh it's just they had a really good training program, you know, for a long period of time. Still do.

Jeremy: 8:25

So yeah, absolutely. So when I went to work for them, I got to learn about the paint systems on a lot more depth and detail. Um, got to learn more about the chemistry and how things react. Um I went through all the training schools for LIC, some architectural stuff. Um, when Waterborne was first coming out, we got to got to play with that from an early stage and met a lot of people, met a lot of great, great people in this collision industry.

Rick: 8:53

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Jeremy: 10:33

Um and then uh, you know, I I was still really my heart was in the detailing side of things. So my passion when I would go to my my shops was to not only fix their paint issues, but also to show them how their paint systems could work look the best that they possibly could, um, which doesn't always align with the collision industry. So it does, especially back then. It did really so for me, um, I hosted a lot of wet sanding and polishing training classes with my customers. Um, one of the uh manufacturers that I was really aligned with at that time was Meguiar's, and we used to have the folks from Meguiar's come in, um, spend maybe a week with me in my territory, and we would drive around shop to shop, we would set up clinics, uh, evening clinics, lunch and learns, all that sort of stuff to uh bring these, yeah, bring this education to our our technical um uh to the folks that are doing all this from a technical perspective. You know, the the techs were maybe uh uh using older technology for compounds and polishes, they were maybe using older skills, and you know, a lot of this stuff was kind of passed down, uh this knowledge was kind of passed down from generation to generation. But the one thing that was always changing was the paint systems. So we had people that were trying to buff like lacquer days on you know catalyzed, you know, urethane, polyurethane systems and what and whatnot, and they don't they don't operate the same way. So we were really just trying to do the best we could to help these guys get off the struggle of using outdated tools and systems uh and and uh skills to get them to be more efficient and get a better job done.

Rick: 12:26

Yeah, you you can't rub urethades or acrylic enamels or lacquers all in the same manner with the same products, same process. It's vastly different. So yeah, I remember going through all that in my younger days. So yeah.

Jeremy: 12:40

Um hey, back back in the lacquer days, you could reflow it. You absolutely could reflow a scratch. You could uh with enough heat and solvent, you could take paint from here and move it over here. I know we're doing a voiceover vod podcast, but I'm using my hands to show where paint is is gonna flow back into your scratch. And obviously, now that's not the case. You know, if there's a scratch there, there's there's a scratch there forever. And those folks who still think that you can heat up a scratch and make it go away don't really understand what's happening there. So that's that's still a struggle that we that we run into even today. And this is this has been my mission for 30 plus years now, uh, trying to help people uh get paint systems polished out properly.

Rick: 13:24

Oh, that's that's awesome. And you picked a great company to work for. I have I was very familiar with uh Meguire's in my in my job or days. I I'd met Barry McGuire, I'd been out to the Imperial Palace in Vegas and saw their uh their collection of cars. And I, you know, in in my day of of selling, you know, to me that was the best polishing system out there. It was all body shop friendly stuff, it all smelled good, you know what I mean? And it was a complete system. So I was I was sold on that stuff um for the longest period of time. And I know eventually 3M bought them, and you were there during that transition, right?

Jeremy: 14:01

Yeah, so um my transition from working at the PBG Platinum Distributor was uh because I was working so much with Meguiar's, Meguiar's actually offered me a job and I went to go work for them in uh early 2003. So yeah, I had an opportunity to take the the passion that I had, the knowledge that I had gained through all the extensive training with um with PPG and apply it to what we were doing at Meguiar's at the time. So yeah, I did join uh McGuire's in 2003. Um, and I got to work with some incredible people. Uh, and I was there for 13 years. So yeah, Barry was incredible to work for, still is Barry and Karen. Um, and I get to, you know, I I know we're recording this before Sima now, but you know, I'll I'll get to to run over to the McGuire's booth and spend some time there um and and uh have my annual reconnection with with old teammates and and uh really people that are still family to me.

Rick: 15:00

Yeah. No, that that's fantastic. And it's it's great to spend some time at a company that that has that kind of a culture, right? So yeah.

Jeremy: 15:08

So um yeah, m 3M purchased McGuire's in about 07. Um and I was still there at that time, and you know, the the education learning curve just shot up. We had to learn so much more from you know a very structured company like 3M, a global organization that um you know worked pretty well internally together, um, and really intelligent people. Um so they were very professional through and through, and that really helped me uh you know progress as a as a professional. Um but unfortunately, because it is a large company that is uh you know stockholder owned, yeah um, sometimes you're susceptible to the the economy.

Rick: 15:56

So in 2015, that's your yeah quarterly you're susceptible to the economy, yeah. Yeah, familiar with that.

Jeremy: 16:03

So so in 2015 they had a big round of layoffs and they laid off about 1,500 people. Um and unfortunately, Maguire's was also impacted by that. So uh that meant I was uh eligible and I was looking for an a new home. Uh, put so one of my teammates at McGuire's had recently uh left and had started working for this little Italian tool company uh who was making polishers and just breaking into the US market. And you know, I had some familiarity with these products and we had used them, and um, you know, we had some amazing results when you paired their polishers and with our McGuire's pads and compounds. And so I I called them up and I said, Hey, you know, here's what happened. Uh, you know, are you guys hiring? And he says, Yeah, call this guy. Uh, he's my boss, he's running the US right now. Um, have a conversation with him. So I talked to this fella, his name was Chipcase. Uh, Chipcase was um basically running and developing the US market for this little company called Rupus. Um, now in the collision industry, we know who Rupus is, but absolutely um back then, you know, the collision industry wasn't really in the US really uh aware of who Rupus was. But Rupus was this family-owned um second generation company um that was making long throw random orbital polishers, and now you see them throughout the collision industry a lot more prevalently, but back then you didn't see them at all because they really didn't exist. I think Dina Braid had a had an attachment that you could put on your polish on your um rotary polisher. Yep. Um, but that was it, that's all you would see. And it was a heavy piece of complicated gearing and equipment. Um, but people didn't really adapt to it. And then Rupus comes along with these really smooth, powerful, um, aggressive tools that did an incredible job at removing sand scratches, but also didn't create heat and with friction and uh didn't swell your paint and left everything like haze free with a non-directional finish. So it was incredible how efficient you could actually be with the system here. So you know the detail.

Rick: 18:25

Especially if you had a black job and you could not get that right with any other tool. I remember that was really, really popular with a lot of the higher-end body shops. You know, they would spend the money on that and go, yeah, this this really does it for black.

Jeremy: 18:38

So so I had an opportunity to join Rupus uh USA in the very early days, and um throughout my seven years with Rupus USA, um, yeah, I became national sales manager, and we had an incredible growth period there. We built a new uh facility in Colorado where we did manufacturing, was also the host of our training center. Um, it hosted the um the US headquarters and so on and so forth. So I got to build an incredible team of um of tech reps and sales professionals uh who are still some of my best friends today as well, just just like the McGuire's days. Uh, and as a matter of fact, I ended up um over time with the ability to hire some of my former McGuire's teammates onto Rupus USA. So I knew that they were very capable people. Um, I knew that they would do the best that they they possibly could to represent the brand. And uh I knew that they were the right people to hire. So I hired uh multiple people from from Meguiar's. Um you know, had gone into different careers after Meguiar's themselves, but I had an opportunity to to hire them into Rupus. So their passion is is even there today uh in the detailing industry, you know, doing the uh uh you know, spreading the word about you know better efficiencies and and getting getting the job done more efficient and with better results and so on and so forth.

Rick: 20:11

So you were able you were able to grow the sales groups uh nationally.

Jeremy: 20:16

Absolutely. Um yeah, we we had some international um responsibilities as well. Um, you know, but over seven years things changed uh from uh how we do things and so on and so forth. So but yeah, we we had uh we had a lot of great fun. Uh and they're still today continuing to have a lot of great fun with growth. Yeah, fantastic. Um yeah, and then uh you know, as far as NAS, y'all, um, we had an opportunity about two years to go two years ago to join a nano ceramic coating company. Now, in the world of detailing, um, nano ceramic coatings are really commonplace. Um the technology has been around for a long time. Um, in detailing, I would say it really you started hearing about it maybe 20-ish years ago. Um, it got really popular, uh, gained a lot of popularity, I would say five to ten years ago. Um, and you would see a lot of different brands pop up overnight. It just seemed like every week there was five new nano ceramic coating brands out there.

Rick: 21:25

Yeah, that's this is and this is something I I wanted to dive in, Jeremy. Is yeah, um I I I gotta be honest, I'm I'm ignorant when it comes to nanotechnology and nano coatings and ceramic coatings, and but I've seen the growth of that. So if you go to SEMA the last three years in a row and you go through, I think it's either the I think it's the North Hall, maybe that has all the new products out there.

Jeremy: 21:47

Yeah, the the new products, yeah. You'll see a lot of a lot of things you've never seen before. That's a lot of companies debut there.

Rick: 21:55

Yeah, and it's like every year there's more and more ceramic coating companies out there with their vehicles and they're doing the process. And and I was intrigued by that because uh, from my end, serving body shops for a lot of years, that was the bane of most painters is you know, as those come in, what the hell am I supposed to do with this? Right. So, anyways, I I I'm interested about the nanotechnology, and uh so continue explaining about that.

Jeremy: 22:24

Yeah, so uh I had an opportunity to join NASDAQ, and what I learned about them was that they were not just in this group of companies that would, you know, again, five new brands every week, they were not actually in that group. Um, they were very much behind the scenes uh and the and very responsible, responsible for a lot of the growth in the ceramic coating industry. Um, their story is a pretty unique one, uh, founded by three nano engineer engineering students. Um, and they came up with formulations that were so good at an early stage that they actually started a research and development company while they were still in school. Um basically they went from research and development into manufacturing very quickly and provided um the raw materials for uh other companies uh for a long, long time. So basically, they were more of a manufacturing company. Uh research and development was primary. Manufacturing came out of necessity because what they found was that they would um create a lot of formulations for for companies and the companies themselves didn't have the equipment, the knowledge, the know-how to actually make those those formulations. So they went back to uh they went back to uh the company to get the um to get the formulas made as well. So that's how we quickly progressed into manufacturing. Okay um so NASDAQ is actually a house brand of our parent company. Um what we do here with NASDAQ is this is a showcase of what our capabilities are for um for the the actual products themselves, but also the the marketing and uh and the sales, and it's it's designed to kind of be uh you know the attractive thing that brings you to us so that we can manufacture products for you.

Rick: 24:20

Right. But this is not just automotive. This is you guys serve multiple industries, correct?

Jeremy: 24:28

Absolutely. Um, you know, automotive is kind of like the sexier side of things, you know. This is where you you can showcase the high gloss and and the hydrophobic, so the really tight, small water beads rolling off the hood and those visuals. That's where that's that's typically where automotive people are going to associate nano ceramic coatings. But industrially, um, nano ceramic coatings are used on uh just about any surface that you can think of. Um, some of the very early uh applications for nanoceramic coatings were actually printed circuit boards used in uh you know electronics globally. So this helps with corrosion resistance, and uh that's its primary function right there is corrosion resistance.

Rick: 25:14

Okay.

Jeremy: 25:15

Um, you know, different formulations for different substrate materials, you know, just like primers and things like that that we use in the collision industry. Um, but yeah, we uh we do an incredible amount of glass, um, ceramic, um, we do an incredible amount of textile. Um, so this helps with waterproofing and staining, uh, stain resistance, excuse me. Uh, but we we do basically every surface that you can think of. So it's it's not just cars, it could be you know things that are used in in uh aerospace industry as well, just to help with UV protection, um corrosion resistance and oxidation resistance and so on and so forth. So there's there's very practical could be as simple as the ceramic tiles in your bathroom or your kitchen, right? Absolutely. Home applications are incredible. Um, huh? You know, I love doing the shower door glass. That's that's one of the things that everybody hates cleaning because you get this mineral buildup. I got the same problem. Send me a model of whatever works for that way. Yeah, yeah, I'd be happy to. Um, but it's incredible, you know, once you get all that scale off and you you're back down to glass, uh, you can simply apply the ceramic coating on there, and it seriously delays the formation of any of those mineral deposits, keeps things really easy to clean. Um visually, it's crystal clear even while you're taking a shower. So uh there's some really great benefits there. Now, at home, that that just sounds like a nice convenience. Right. But if you are in the hospitality industry and you own hotels with thousands of rooms and you have to pay people to clean all of that on a daily basis, right? This makes actual financial sense as well as not just aesthetic sense. Right. So this means that you're paying you're paying less in chemicals because you're not using those really nasty things to uh clean off that scale. Uh there's less labor involved, and your guests get a cleaner uh experience. So, you know, your your CSI scores increase as as well. So there's a lot of practical applications here. It's not just about the beauty of it that we typically associate nano ceramic coatings with as car people.

Rick: 27:29

Okay. Oh, that makes sense. Um, so are a lot of these coatings, like say what not so much industrial, but uh residential um aviation, things like are these applied coatings that the end user or the um the company that's building a product that's let's say it's in the aerospace uh or the construction or the home um home building uh piece of business, these are codings that they apply themselves. It's not or is it applied afterwards once a thing is built and actually in place somewhere, or is it both?

Jeremy: 28:05

Um it depends. Um so in the case of like textiles, you can do you could take a finished good, whether it's a a garment or if it's um uh an awning or an umbrella or something like that, you can take a finished good and treat it afterwards. Okay. Um the uh the primary way, uh the more efficient way to do it, or depending on what kind of industry you're in, or what part of the supply chain you're in in an industry, right? Um, you can actually pre-treat those roles um as they're manufactured. So so where I live in western North Carolina, the textile industry used to be a lot more prevalent than it is, but we still do have textile manufacturing here. So uh huge industrial looms that make um that make cloth uh from thread. And basically when they are done weaving um and everything gets rolled up onto you know large drums and rolls, uh, what they actually do is run that cloth through a wet bath of um of uh nano ceramic coating that helps it become stain resistant and water resistant and what you know um and that's the primary process on how they treat in a industrial application for for fabric. So yeah, you do have that versatility. You could do either finished or during the manufacturing process of not quite the raw material, but kind of the raw material.

Speaker 3: 29:41

Okay.

Rick: 29:41

All right. That no, that makes sense. I and I just wasn't sure, that's why I wanted to ask. Oh, going back to the um automotive side of things, because obviously that's what everybody's interested in. Now you have coatings that would do not just exterior but glass, uh interior, right? Your fake leather interior and your dash and all that stuff with a nano ceramic coating, right? Right. Do those require a certain amount of reapplications or upkeep, or is it a once and done?

Jeremy: 30:12

Or um it depends on the substrate material. Um, the harder surfaces are easier to bond with for more durability. Okay. Uh the more flexible surfaces, you can't get that kind of life on them. Um, you know, the the hard surfaces are easy because you can create a rigid bond, right? Um, on those flexible surfaces, because they're constantly going back and forth, you're constantly kind of breaking those bonds. So wear and tear is uh is gonna be the issue there.

Rick: 30:47

So it's gonna be a maintenance program to keep up like upholstery or carpet or anything else that's um more fibrous, right?

Jeremy: 30:56

Yeah, those are gonna be like a one-year type of application where um something on a paint surface uh you know could last up to 10 years, depending on how you maintain it in the environment that in which it's kept. So there's a pretty big difference there. So the harder the surface is, the more durability we can get out of it, uh, the more flexible the surface, the the shorter the durability is.

Rick: 31:21

Okay. So I wanted to uh and I was looking on your website and I've looked at some of the uh products and the automotive side. And yeah, there's quite a good quite a good selection of offerings for all different parts of vehicle, which which is awesome. Yeah. And I did look at some of the maintenance. Uh you've got some great reference material as far as instructional stuff and and maintenance um protocols and things like that, which I thought was really neat. But I want to jump into probably the part that affects collision shops specifically. So, as I said earlier, the bane of painters, you know, these days is what do I do with the ceramic coating? Yeah. Should I call my buddies down at the high-end detail shop? Should I call my paint manufacturer? Should I call the distributor? Who the hell should I call? Because I don't want to screw this up, or can I just wipe it off? You know what I mean? There's there's not a good common knowledge on what needs to be done before a car gets you know prepped for paint. So can you kind of walk through that?

Jeremy: 32:24

Yeah, absolutely. So, Rick, there's I think there's kind of two approaches here. There's um during the repair uh side of things, you know, what happens while we're preparing the the vehicle for paint, you know, um during the repair process. And then, you know, we could spend some time also talking about the post-repair process as well. So, you know, let's go in order, let's go with uh, you know, you know, trying to return the vehicle back to pre-accident condition by getting these panels off, getting these panels prepped for paint and and um pulling and everything else. The the the long answer is you know, there used to be some technology out there where with ceramic coatings that you could use some different chemicals to kind of loosen it off the surface and be able to, you know, almost like a paint stripper or a chemical stripper.

Rick: 33:17

Right.

Jeremy: 33:18

Um but that is some old school type of entry-level coating stuff. Um, if you're using a professional coating, um, some of the stuff that you'll run into from NASDAQ as an example, it's so chemical resistant that you're probably you're gonna have to get into stuff that are basically gonna be mutagens. They're they're so incredibly toxic to actually get through that ceramic coating. You know, remember the ceramic coating's job is to help protect against those things. So uh truly the the best way, the the only way that we really recommend is through the abrasion process. You're gonna have to sand it off. Um, again, you might have some uh some people that maybe their car owners were using nano ceramic sealant sprays and things like that, but they're very topical. They don't they they will bond to the top surface, but they don't really they more sit on the surface than actually bond to it.

Rick: 34:20

So while they're they'll put a turtle wax, it's gonna wash off eventually, right?

Jeremy: 34:24

Right, right. Okay. Um so the that type of stuff you can use chemicals on, you know, some some strong degreasers and and solvents. Usually we're gonna be using solvents in our industry to to uh you know spray, allow it to soak, and then wipe off. But those are more marketing gimmick type of ceramic coatings uh than a true ceramic coating, right? Um basically they have an ingredient in there that is uh so many percent of the the volume is gonna be you know sio2. So it's enough that they can put it on the label. Um, but it's not the same effect, it's not the same as doing a professionally applied nano ceramic coating.

Rick: 35:08

Okay.

Jeremy: 35:08

So good ceramic coating.

Rick: 35:10

When you say a braid, are we talking you know, 2000, 1500? Are we talking 320, 400? I mean, how how hard do you gotta go with abrasion? What what grit level?

Jeremy: 35:22

I I'd love to give you just like a uh a really easy answer on that, but it really depends on what product was put on there. So um think about it like paint, you know, some some paints that we uh run into are really soft and easily easily damaged and easy to abrade. Uh other paints that we know from uh you know more industrial type applications, you know, laugh at getting hit with a hammer, you know. So there are there's a huge range there, and the same thing is kind of true with nano ceramic coatings. Um you can start with usually around 1500 or so, but there may be um a real good chance that you're gonna have to get down into the six, eight hundred grit range to to actually remove some of these ceramic coatings. Okay, it's important to understand that these are designed as something that are really corrosion resistant, really abrasion resistant, really UV resistant. Um uh so their job is to resist all of these things to get them off. So we have to get aggressive with it. Typically, if you're gonna prep a panel, you're probably gonna need to take it down to at least primer uh or you know, the the color coat. You're gonna have to get rid of that top layer that's been basically infused with that nano ceramic coating.

Rick: 36:45

Okay. So how do you know when you've achieved um enough of uh abrasion to where it's it's probably gonna be is there is there a fairly easy way to tell or not really?

Jeremy: 36:59

You know, it's it's harder to describe to a detailer because they're not body men, so they don't typically do a lot of wet sanding or feathering. Right. But to the collision industry, it's easier to tell because you're going to basically you'll break through a spot when you sand, and then you're gonna continue to feather that edge out. You'll you'll actually see where, especially when you get into the wet sanding stages, you'll actually see where um the uh the coating has actually started to, you know, that surface is actually dulled and is no longer hydrophobic and uh you know has that matte kind of look to it, right? That sanded look to it. Okay. Um and you will just continue to feather that edge out until you've removed everything off the off the work area that you're that you need to prep.

Rick: 37:44

Seems like there'd be a beading or a non-beading uh definition too, right? So nanotechnology beads really small, really tight, uh, very easily. It would it just in my head I'm thinking, I would think if I just poured some or sprayed some water through a water bottle or something like that on a spot, that should tell me if I've abraded it correctly or not. It sure helps. It sure helps.

Jeremy: 38:11

Don't forget that you can abrade a surface. Um you can abrade the surface to the point where um there'll be like a middle ground where it's you've scuffed it so that it's not as hydrophobic as it used to be, but there's still coating there. So it's you still do need to make sure that you're sanded that you have thoroughly sanded through it. But yeah, uh if you do spray some water on there, that's gonna be a pretty good indicator of where you're at in that removal process.

Rick: 38:42

Okay. Would that be a good indicator? Let's say someone's gonna start working on a job, they have no idea whether it's got ceramic coating on or not. Would that be a good first step for uh for a painter is to go, let's just give this a spray check. Let's see how see how much it beads or doesn't bead.

Jeremy: 38:58

I wish it was that simple, but you know, again, because we have a collision industry background. How many if we pull a freshly painted hood out of the booth and we hit it with water, it's gonna bead like crazy, right? Yeah, it's beading for a different reason. It's not beading because it's protected by a wax, a ceiling, or a ceramic coating. It's beading because there are, you know, all the solvents are starting to flash out of that surface and they're hydrophobic, right? They're they're pushing the water off. So um it's it's tricky to give you that indication of whether or not there's uh production on there just because of beating alone. It it can be one of the tools in the toolbox, but it can't be the only one. Okay. Um, I would say honestly, um if you touch it and it feels super slick, um you know, paint is usually pretty slick on its own, but because the hardness of ceramic coatings is so much harder than even the factory paint, let alone refinish paint, um, it's gonna be slicker, it's gonna be kind of like a tighter surface, so it's not going to uh grab your fingers as much. Yeah, um, I that's gonna help a lot.

Rick: 40:10

Yeah, the brain I know right where you're where you're talking because I've felt what a ceramic coating feels like on the surface of a card, and it is very slippery, very slick. And there's no paint system out there that feels that slick.

Jeremy: 40:22

So yeah. Um, you know, paint systems are porous, right? What the the nano ceramic coatings do is basically they go onto that surface, they fill in the pores, um, and then it grows into a crystalline structure into the topmost crust of your paint system and reinforces it like rebar does to concrete. So um, believe it or not, your nano ceramic coatings, uh, if you're getting a good quality professional one, will be three to four times more scratch resistant than your paint.

Rick: 40:56

Wow.

Jeremy: 40:58

So it's it's if you're a car lover, you know, and you really want to protect your baby, you know, nano ceramic coatings are are really incredible at um protecting your baby.

Rick: 41:09

Okay.

Jeremy: 41:09

Um so it helps with maintenance, it makes it easier to wash your car, it doesn't get dirty as easy and so on and so forth, but it's there for protection. It's okay, it's it's super ultra mega thin, but it does an incredible job at again kind of working as a system with your existing paint system to be able to uh increase all of the protection properties of UV, scratch, and chemical resistance.

Rick: 41:37

Okay, awesome. So I've finished my paint job, I've got the the coatings off, I've I've done a great paint job, pull it out of the booth, it's cured for 40 minutes, it cools down. Um can I put the nano coating? Let's say I've I've got the products and and this is now part of my process to is to reinstall that ceramic coating. Can I put that on after a cool down or do I got to wait a certain amount of time?

Jeremy: 42:02

Rick, that's a great question. Um, highly recommend that you wait 90 days. You know, the paint system, the paint system really needs to finish doing its thing. You know, it doesn't matter if we've cured with lamps and and high bake booths and stuff like that, you know, there's there's still a solvent that's in that system that needs to come out. You know, it's the the paint system's still shrinking, plus we have the evaporative effect that's happening with all the solvents, it needs to get out. Now, if you were to use like a wax, uh like a natural carnule wax or something that's like a blended synthetics or something like that, they're not really great at resisting those solvents. So you could kind of get away with putting those more natural uh protectants on those surfaces during that curing process, because as that solvent comes out, it's literally gonna punch holes through the wax and be able to gas out. It's gonna slow that effect, but it's still gonna have the ability to do that. Um as you get into uh better protecting properties. Uh, if you go into a um a sealant as an example, a sealant may be, you know, typically they're more of a polymer-based product, so they're more resistant to chemicals and things like that. Um, that's where you kind of start getting in into a fuzzy area on whether or not you should be applying that on fresh paint. Um, most manufacturers will say, absolutely not. Don't put waxes, don't put seal or sealants on there. Now, when you get into nano ceramic coatings, it's a whole different level of how much it actually seals up that surface. And because it's so chemical resistant, it's going to be extremely difficult for the solvents to punch through. So we really need you to make sure that that system is done curing before you apply a ceramic coating.

Rick: 43:55

Right. You have an ugly dieback situation if you don't.

Jeremy: 43:58

So yeah.

Rick: 44:00

Probably similar to when you put a wrap on, too. You'd I think you gotta wait about that kind of a time frame to actually put a wrap.

Jeremy: 44:06

Yeah. Uh, if you're gonna do uh wraps or paint protection film, PPF, uh yeah, all of those, you know, those are much thicker, you know, plastic coatings. Uh and they're very porous themselves and they're designed to be flexible and move around. Um so believe it or not, uh, they actually have a little more ability to gas through than the nano ceramic coatings do. Crazy to think because they're many, many times thicker than the sand than the ceramic coating, but they actually have a little bit more ability. The biggest issue actually isn't trapping with PPF and vinyl wraps and things like that. Their biggest issue isn't necessarily that this is a a thick surface that you know you're trying the the solvents trying to push its way through. It's actually the adhesive.

Rick: 44:55

It'll it'll it'll bond stronger to that paint, right, when it's fresher. Yeah, so become impossible to remove.

Jeremy: 45:02

The the adhesive is actually going to be uh working with the solvents in that that that real um that top layer where they they connect. Uh, and really interesting things can happen there. Um, that could cause issues with adhesion, with color change, with uh with all sorts of different things there. Okay, you basically have two strong chemicals that are touching and reacting and interacting, right? Uh, and then they're also kind of trapped in that area too. So yeah, you gotta wait. You know, there's no there's no um there's no quick answer on that if you want to get into the more protective things like PPF, vinyl, or ceramic coatings.

Rick: 45:43

Okay, fantastic. All right, as we're uh so we're getting down to uh we're gonna run out of time soon, but I I did want to ask about um, I believe, and I've always felt this is walking through SEMA and seeing some of the new businesses that are out there, like ceramic coating, like window tinting, like you know, uh trim. I got a buddy that owns or that runs Trim Illusions and they do trim pieces. There's so many cool little businesses, and I thought as a collision owner, it seems like it'd be great to have these little bolt-on businesses because there's times when you're slow. We've experienced that this year. But um it seems like the ceramic coating business would be a great bolt-on business uh for a collision shop. So uh, and you know, a new revenue stream. So, you know, what does that look like? Um, is that fairly easy to get into if you're if you're you know a pretty sharp shop owner and you got a maybe you got a glass company too that you're doing, or maybe you do some car rentals or something, but uh is that fairly easy to get into that side of it?

Jeremy: 46:43

It is too easy to get into, to be really bluntly honest. All right. Um you know, the the detailing industry doesn't have a lot of certifications or organizing bodies to help with regulation, training, certification, and so on and so forth. There's still a bit to learn from the collision industry as far as that goes for more legitimacy and professionalism. But right now, um, you know, if I had a few hundred dollars in my pocket and I wanted to go to my local supply store and and buy the you know the stuff I need to detail cars, I can leave the parking lot calling myself a detailer. You know, I put up a Facebook page or you know, Instagram and whatnot, and I call myself a detailer and that's it. I'm a detailer.

Speaker 3: 47:31

Yeah.

Jeremy: 47:32

Um now you you still have a bit of that in the collision industry as well. There's plenty of people that that do work at home that don't have certified shops, that may not be certified painters, so on and so forth, but it's a lot harder. You know, you still have a lot of issues when it comes to regulatory compliance, VOCs, um, you know, whether or not a a um uh distributor will actually sell you product, right? You know, if if if you're not a professional shop, and especially in some areas of the US, you can't get your hands on the paint, right? They're just not gonna sell it to the general public. Um, that's not the case in detailing. So it's super easy to get into detailing, which you know, the industry is struggling with that, right? Yeah. But if you are a professional, you know, body shop, if you're a collision center, you have a built-in clientele. You know, you have people that are car owners that are there for, you know, not only structural, but for uh not only there for structural purposes, but also there for appearance purposes. Um, so you have people that um you know will will use your detailing services if you provide them. Um the the biggest challenge is there's a big difference between body shop um body shop detailing and professional detailing detailing. The skill levels are are very different. The passion level, I think, is the biggest thing that is really hard to compare. Um, as I said, I've been in the collision industry for a long time, but my passion has been into detailing.

Rick: 49:09

Right.

Jeremy: 49:10

So for me to do the um for me to kind of combine these things is is awesome. I love to be able to do that. But um getting to the point where you have uh the ability to give the results that professional detailers give to their clientele, that's uh that's a big mindset adjustment. Most of the time, you know, in the collision industry, we look at uh buffing as uh you know, depending on what insurance company you're working for and so on and so forth, they may not pay you for it, right? So you're trying to get it done as quickly as possible. It's a necessity, it's not it's not an added, it's not an added service. Right. So I I think the collision industry for for at least the last 10 to 15 years has looked at uh sanding and polishing as something that you need to work through as fast as you can. Yeah, let the results be damned, as long as they're good enough for to deliver the car to the customer, then so be it. And if they complain, then we'll just polish it again. Um but uh the you know the attention to detail is not the same as what a detailer does. Okay, you know, that's I think the biggest challenge. But if you have to if you do make the mindset change that, okay, you know, uh collision industry, we have our stand standards over here, detailing industry has a different set of standards over here, and as long as you can walk from the detail area into the rest of the collision shop and you know make that mental switch as to what the customer needs are and what you need to fulfill, you're good to go. Um, you know, most detail shops are not as well run as a collision center is. So you have some big advantages there. You know, you have a home, you you basically have a it's not home base, but you have a uh a place from which you can do that those services. And you have customers that are coming in that know that you're skilled and talented at automotive repair. So, you know, you're great at all things automotive appearance-wise, as far as they're concerned. So you have a you have a credibility there that most detailers you know have to earn over time. You've already earned it with a lot of your clientele, just the fact that you've been around for a long time and do good do great work, right? Right. So adding detailing services um is something I think is a great revenue stream. Um, obviously, we have an entire industry based off of detailing, so it is a proven successful model. Sure. So if you want to add that to your collision centers, you absolutely have um a much better chance of success with uh with your history and and your established business and so on and so forth.

Rick: 52:06

Okay, so probably a good determining factor would be if you just got a kid back there that you put back there because someone has to finish rubbing and detailing and washing the cars before they go out the door, that's probably not going to be your best scenario to add uh nano coatings uh to your portfolio. But if you've got a pretty legit detail department, they maybe they do the details for one of the local dealerships, maybe they have high-end car guys that that's you know, that's the kind of model you want to add something like this to, right?

Jeremy: 52:40

Best advice I can give to you is hire the passionate people. Yeah, hire the people that love cars because they're gonna go above and beyond to make sure that that car, you know, gets the best treatment and you get the best result. So that's gonna help you immensely as a business owner to make sure that you're delivering what the customer is asking for. Um yeah, getting unskilled labor and teaching them is fine, but I would highly recommend you look for the passionate person and train that passionate person.

Rick: 53:12

I would totally agree with that sentiment. That's uh and that that follows through really with a lot of things in the automotive industry. The more passionate you are about it, the better performance you're gonna you're gonna have. So um excellent information, Jeremy. Um, I really appreciate you sharing everything you shared today. As we uh look to wrap up here, um, I wanted to get just because you've had such good success in in growing the businesses that you've been in, and you know, having a uh ceramic coating offering, you know, is could be a part of growth for your facility for your shop owner. But what are just maybe a couple three or four key takeaways that you would leave us with on um growth strategies that would help the average collision shop owner that may they may not be thinking about, or you know, what do you feel are are good growth strategies that's helped you along your way?

Jeremy: 54:06

I will tell you that you know, it's a I'm not gonna say it's a worn-out cliche, but it's a very well-used cliche is uh people buy from people, take care of people. Uh, you know, if your customers are coming in and they feel welcomed, they feel heard, that they're uh confident that their issues are gonna be addressed, they're going to uh recommend you to friends and family and to co-workers, so on and so forth, and they're gonna keep that referral chain going, which as we know is the best way to increase your business. You know, word of mouth is the best way. You can spend millions in advertising every year, but if people say, Yeah, I had a great experience with that company and I highly recommend you go there, then you know, that does a much better job of having an impact on your business. So make sure you take care of people. Um, make sure that you deliver a great customer experience. Uh, I'd say that's that's the number one thing right there. You know, Rick, you and I have been, you know, uh salespeople for a long time. Yes. We've we've maybe um had issues where our company had a performance issue with a product, a bad batch or something like that. But you know what? Our customers liked us, so they they suffered through that pain with us and and continue to do business with us for decades later, right? And it became down to the relationship. So relationships kind of help smooth everything over.

Rick: 55:36

Absolutely. Absolutely. No, that's fantastic, and I I couldn't agree more with that. That's that's helped me in my career for a long time is uh doing the right thing for the customers, uh, providing that great experience. And yeah, the a good customer will follow you wherever you go, whatever industry you're in, if they can you know engage you there, they will.

Jeremy: 55:58

So yeah, absolutely. Um, I would also say the next thing is make sure you're always in um investing into education. So whether it's uh ongoing training, whether it's new technologies, or if it is um new systems, things like that, always invest into those things because it's very simple for us to look back at uh people that don't make those changes and they they get stuck, they get stuck, and their businesses tend to get stuck as well. So that doesn't mean go spend money blindly on things that uh that are just coming out new. Make good good investments, but make sure that you have great staff that is really knowledgeable about what they're doing, that they understand about all the new things that are coming that can help them um adapt and be more efficient or do better work. Um training is key. Yeah, I I've I've always been a huge proponent of training. Uh, you know, I think that was drilled into me with my PPG days and taking, you know, getting addicted to going to the BDCs for whatever new class was available that they had a slot in. Um so train, train, train. Don't ever stop learning. Uh that will that will help you immensely.

Rick: 57:15

That that's fantastic. And that's been uh a mantra of mine and something I've talked about on this podcast several times is you know keep continu, we're we're designed as people, we're always designed to continue to learn, we're continuing to grow. That's part of our DNA. Some of us don't realize it, but you should always be learning, always investing uh your time and energy into learning new things or whatever your skills are, improving those skills. Um shop ownership needs to understand that um it's not a cost. So if you got three guys and they need training, it is not a cost. I can't afford to send those three guys to train. It's an investment. It's an investment in their future, it's an investment in your future and your business. So uh it's never, never a waste of money.

Jeremy: 58:01

So yeah, I I agree. Um then the last thing I will say is kind of related to the the first one is is network. Make sure that you you get into, you know, if there are 20 groups that are available, or if you have shop owner groups that are available uh that you can participate in, if you can go to different industry events and network, you're going to learn a lot from people who are willing to share. You're gonna have like-minded people attending those events, and that goes back to that relationship building. Uh, you're gonna learn about what what's worked great for them. And maybe even more importantly, you're gonna learn from a lot of people who've made mistakes and are gonna warn you in a in a in a genuine way on how not to do what they did. Yes. Um, some of those, some of the most valuable mistakes um that you can learn from are other people's mistakes. Absolutely. So if they if they can zero, yeah, if they can shortcut your learning um and really drive it home, then you know, listen to their messages. Yeah, listen to their messages. I would so yeah, attend these industry events, go to things like C Mugs, go to you know, um whatever meetings that you can, you know. If you you will you will develop these relationships that will serve you and your business and your customers for for a long time to come.

Rick: 59:25

Yeah. Excellent advice, Jeremy. Excellent advice. Thank you for so much for sharing. Uh thank you for your time today. Uh, speaking of SEMA, I have lots to do before I head out to SEMA, so I need to get to that. Uh, I will come see you at your booth. I'm looking forward to that while we're out there. And um, for the folks listening, uh, like I said, you'll hear this after SEMA. But uh sure, I'll leave all the connection information for Jeremy, uh, his company, where you can get a hold of him. But uh, he's great as you can as you're here to to talk to. He's got a ton of knowledge. And uh, if you have questions, especially about the nanotech. Technology and uh ceramic coatings is a great, great resource for that. So once again, Jeremy, thank you so much for spending time with us today. I appreciate it, and uh, I will see you soon, my friend. Yes, I'm looking forward to it. Thank you, Rick. Well, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Jeremy Harding from NASIA. And hopefully you can apply some of the knowledge he shared on the detail side of collision repair, how to address ceramic coatings, and some great growth strategies. Feel free to reach out to Jeremy with any questions or additional information. I'll leave his contact information in the show notes. Well, that's all I had for you today. Thanks again for tuning in. I really appreciate your support, and I hope you have a great week. I can always be reached at www.ricksilover.com, where you can find all my social media links, podcast episodes, blog posts, and much more.