Mind Wrench Podcast
Welcome to The Mind-Wrench Podcast, your go-to resource for personal and professional development in the automotive repair industry. Discover effective strategies to elevate your life to the next level, applicable not just for auto professionals, but for anyone seeking personal growth. Join our knowledgeable host, industry veteran Rick Selover, as he imparts practical insights on mindset, self-improvement, and leadership, enabling you to run a thriving shop and lead a more fulfilling life. Tune in every Monday to expand your horizons. For additional information, connect with Rick on Instagram @rick_selover, become part of the vibrant CollisionMasterMind Facebook Group, or visit rickselover.com for additional information and resources.
Mind Wrench Podcast
Episode #192- Planting seeds to grow Technicians- w/Jay Goninen- WrenchWay
Episode Notes:
This week's MindWrench Podcast episode tackles the critical technician shortage in the automotive industry, suggesting that the solution lies not just in desperate recruitment, but in proactively supporting educational programs. Special guest Jay Goninen, president and co-founder of WrenchWay, and host of the Beyond the Wrench Podcast, shares insights on building lasting partnerships with schools and fostering positive workplace cultures as key strategies for attracting and retaining talented technicians, as well as building a sustainable talent pipeline.
3 Key Takeaways:
- Focus on Education, Not Just Recruitment: The industry needs to shift its focus from simply recruiting individual technicians to investing in and strengthening the educational programs that train them. This creates a long-term, sustainable talent pool.
- Build Partnerships Early: Shop owners should establish relationships with schools long before graduation season. Early engagement fosters stronger connections with potential technicians and allows for better collaboration on curriculum and training.
- Culture is Key: Technicians aren't just looking for good pay; they want a positive work environment. Prioritizing well-being, professional development, and open communication is crucial for retaining talent.
Thought-Provoking Questions:
- What steps can my shop take today to start building relationships with local automotive schools and technical programs?
- Beyond pay, what specific improvements can I make to my shop's culture to attract and retain technicians in today's market?
- How can I leverage resources like the Voice of the Technician survey to better understand the needs and concerns of my team and other technicians in the industry?
Guest Info: Jay Goninen – Founder -Find-A-Wrench/ Co-Founder- WrenchWay
Email: jay@findawrench.com Website: https://findawrench.com https://wrenchway.com
LinkedIn Beyond The Wrench Podcast
Join our Mind Wrench mailing list! 👉 https://bit.ly/3DGNM9o
Need one-on-one Mindset or Personal Development coaching? – drop me a note @ Personal Coaching – Rick Selover
👉 CLICK HERE FOR 50% OFF YOUR FIRST MONTH OF COACHING!
(use PROMO code FREE50 in the message box!)
🔗Affiliate Links
👀 Read or listen to Top non-fiction book on Blinkist 20% off membership & 7-day free trial
🧑💼 Need freelance help with your business? Check out Fiverr
🛒🍒🥦 Want an easier way to shop? Check out Instacart
Thanks for listening and please share The Mind Wrench Podcast with others!
The number one message I'd have out of that is our industry often focuses on that one person right, the one technician or the one student that's going to come work for us and we're hoping to develop into a quality technician at some point. What my challenge to the industry is is focus on that one program rather than that one student. You need that program to be healthy. You need that future pipeline of technicians to be very, very strong. You don't have that initial seed. You're just going to chase your tail forever.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the MindWrench Podcast with your host, rick Sellover, where minor adjustments produce major improvements in mindset, personal growth and success. This is the place to be every Monday, where we make small improvements and take positive actions in our business and personal lives that will make a major impact in our success, next-level growth and quality of life make a major impact in our success, next-level growth and quality of life.
Speaker 3:Hey, what's up everybody? Welcome to the MindWrench Podcast. I'm your host, rick Silover. Thanks so much for stopping in. If you're a returning listener and haven't done so already, please take a minute and click the follow or subscribe button and then rate and review the show. When you rate and review the show, the algorithms for Apple, spotify, google Podcasts, iheartradio, amazon Music and review the show. When you rate and review the show, the algorithms for Apple, spotify, google Podcasts, iheartradio, amazon Music and all the other platforms will see that it's valuable and show it to more people that have never seen it before, and hopefully it can help them too. I would really, really really appreciate your help sharing this word with your friends and family as well, and if you're a brand new listener, welcome. I hope you find something of value here that helps you in your personal or professional life as well. Please make sure to click the subscribe or follow button so you never miss another episode spending some time with me today.
Speaker 3:So this week I have a very special guest. We've been friends for quite a while. I was on his show a few years back and now he's returning the favor. He's going to be on my show, so good timing for that. So Jay Gonadon is the president and co-founder of Wrenchware. He's also the host of the Beyond the Wrench podcast, so his main goal is fighting that technician shortage that everybody's talking about and has been talking about for years. But Jay's actually doing some things that are making a difference, so we're going to chat a little bit about that today. So, without any further ado, jay, welcome to the show.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much, rick. I appreciate you having me on your show. It was a pleasure to see you I don't know what a month ago. Yeah for SEMA. I had a lot of fun down there catching up with you and a lot of other people in the industry, so it's great, always great to talk to you.
Speaker 3:I appreciate that you too. You know it's funny. Just a side note you know I've been in this part of it the podcast part of it for four years now. I've met so many really cool people that just also happen to be podcast hosts too. So we'll do a little bit of a background. I know you started your career, much like I did, as a technician in the industry, but you were in the mechanical side, I was in the body shop side. What triggered you to start?
Speaker 1:what originally was find a wrench, which is now wrenchway. So I grew up, as you mentioned, in the industry. I hesitate to call myself a former technician because I feel like I do that word a disservice.
Speaker 3:I was a terrible tech, but I was a shitty painter, don't worry about it.
Speaker 1:I grew up in my family's automotive repair shop here in Wisconsin and you know we didn't have a lot of money growing up, so I started in my dad's shop at the age of nine. So when I wasn't at school I was at the shop answering phones, making appointments, filling out deposit slips, doing a lot of stuff that a nine-year-old probably shouldn't be doing. And so, you know, I helped as much as I could and I loved being at the shop. And so as we grew the shop, I think my role started to evolve and so, you know, started off doing oil changes and tire changes, tire rotations, that kind of thing, and got to the point to where the shop had grown and I went off to tech school because I wanted to come back and be a technician. So came back and was a technician for a short period of time and quickly found out that I just didn't love it as much as I thought I would, and I also found out it was harder than I thought it was right, like I think, growing up in a shop you see people working on stuff all day long and I thought I would, and I also found out it was harder than I thought it was Right, like I think, growing up in a shop you see people working on stuff all day long and you're like, oh, that seems easy, like this, this person can do it, like no problem, I'll, I'll go do the same thing.
Speaker 1:And once you kind of get in and get that piece of humble pie and really start to understand that what you'd watched growing up wasn't as easy as it looked, I think it really set me back and I think when I, when I look back at it, it was probably the best thing that ever happened to me, because one, I did get the technical background needed to do a lot of the other things I needed to do in my career.
Speaker 1:But then too, it gave me an appreciation for technicians, because I couldn't do it, I wasn't good at it, and so over the course of time I always say the industry has a way of putting you in its roles and actually went the diesel route for quite a while and I was fortunate enough to be able to go work for a manufacturer, an OEM, that really provided a lot of training and allowed me the opportunity to see a lot of different operations, and then eventually went to one of the dealers that I was a rep for went to run their parts and service departments for a seven location dealership group. All that time I remembered back to being a kid and remembering my dad saying I can't find a damn wrench anywhere, and what he meant was he was looking for techs, right.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I started the first company in 2017, and it was really a play on words from my dad growing up that he couldn't find technicians, and so I was struggling with the same thing in my own operations being able to find good quality technicians and so as I got more and more experience in the industry, I started to really understand that it wasn't just me that was having that issue. It was kind of everybody having that issue. So started Finder Wrench as a primarily recruiting company focused on technicians and, over time, started to realize that we weren't we weren't fixing the core issue of the problem right, we were kind of robbing Peter to pay Paul in some sense, and that's that wasn't helping set a solid foundation for the industry. It also went back to another thing when I was a kid that my dad used to talk about, which was you don't steal texts from the neighboring shop, and I think our industry in general had that kind of mindset for a long time until we got to the point of desperation and then it was like we need people, so I have to take somebody from my neighboring shop, and so I think our hope when transitioning to Wrenchway was that we could really focus on the core issues of the industry, which are getting more people into the industry and keeping the ones that we already have in the industry and keeping them happy, and so I brought on a business partner in 2020.
Speaker 1:We built Wrenchway as a way to really kind of provide transparency to that technician that's out there looking at multiple opportunities and just fully knowing that, if they're good, they probably have their choice of wherever they want to go, and so allowing them to do their research on a shop in a way that, like the way we built it was like Zillow for housing, right, so a technician can come on and really do their due diligence on a shop. And so that part continued to grow. And then, when we really went back to our core mission, which is to promote and improve technician careers, we wanted to figure out a way to really go after the schools in a way that could help bring them support. Help bring them maybe a backbone if they have to go up against administration or a superintendent or school board, and really hopefully give them the resources they need to run a great program. And that's really where we're at in current days, that school piece has become a huge part of what we do.
Speaker 3:If you're looking for a competitive edge for your business or a more effective jump start to your personal development in 2024, I'll make your first step super simple.
Speaker 3:It is a fact that an incredible number of the most successful business owners nearly half of the Fortune 500 companies, top earning professional athletes, entertainers and industry leaders like Microsoft's Bill Gates, former President Bill Clinton, oprah Winfrey, richard Branson, amazon's Jeff Bezos and Salesforce's Mark Benioff all have one thing in common they all have at least one coach and some have several that they work with on a consistent basis, Someone that helps guide, mentor and support them, challenge them, help them set and achieve goals that move them forward and then hold them accountable to follow through, driving personal and professional growth. Working with a coach has many substantial benefits. Just for an example, 80% of coaching clients report improved self-esteem or self-confidence thanks to coaching. 99% of individuals and companies that hire a coach report being very satisfied, and 96% would do it again. Hire a coach report being very satisfied and 96% would do it again.
Speaker 3:If, deep down, you know it's time to make those improvements in your business, your personal life that you've kicked down the road year after year. If you're tired of knowing there's a better version of you waiting to shine, but unsure of how to bring that version to light. If you're tired of wanting to enjoy a more successful business but not sure how to start, and if you don't want to go another 12 months without better results, but you don't want to go it alone, then take the first step. It's super simple. Sometimes talking to the right person can make all the difference. Go to wwwrixelovercom contact and I'll set you up with a free consultation. Call with me to see if one-on-one coaching is right for you.
Speaker 3:Absolutely your note of you know, not stealing another guy's technician, that's. You know, don't fish in another man's pond. That's a common saying within the collision industry too, and we, you know, we've had to do that on this side of the business as well. But it is a. There has been a bigger push to you know, start growing some technicians, not just stealing everybody else's. So it's great that you've gone down this path so far. And what was the initial feedback from the industry? Were you getting a lot of interest and a lot of people? Hey, this is great. I can't believe someone's doing this, or did it just go unnoticed for a period of time?
Speaker 1:period of time. Well, so on the finder wrench side, when we first started it, that was interesting because that grew crazy fast, uh, way faster than I would have thought, and it was because there really was nobody else out there doing what we were doing.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:And so, um, that that word spread quickly in some ways. I like to say we grew too fast. And you read about that in business books and you're like how could anybody grow too fast? That seems like the greatest thing ever, and in reality it puts a lot of stressors on a business right, Because you're just not able to keep up with the demand.
Speaker 1:And of course now there's recruiting companies all over the place for our industry, but at the time we were kind of the only game in town and so that initial feedback I think was great, but then it was also.
Speaker 1:It put pressures on us and I think it was really hard to always deliver a consistent result, right, and that's one of the things that we really focused on with Wrenchway is how do you deliver that consistency?
Speaker 1:Still very, very difficult, and I think one of the unique challenges in the staffing industry, especially in the blue collar trades, are that there aren't enough people right, there simply aren't enough people, and if they're good, they're probably being treated very, very well by their current employer, and so it's hard to do like on that recruiting side. It was so brutal because it was like you could do everything in your power and just care so much and want to do a good job and not get the result that you want Right. And so I think that was where we opened our eyes a little bit to the fact that, like we got to work on that math problem right, we've got to work on getting more in. Otherwise, regardless of what we do over time, it's really hard to assure that you're going to have a happy customer. So it's a tough. The staffing side is really really hard in general and again, I think it just goes back to the fact that it is a math problem and there aren't enough people in this industry.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think it just goes back to the fact that it is a math problem and there aren't enough people in this industry. Yeah, I 100% agree, 100% agree. You've had a really really good, interesting podcast for I don't know. Three, four years now. You got about 240 episodes of Beyond the Wrench, right, yeah, how has that made a difference in your quest to do what you're trying to do?
Speaker 1:I think with the podcast, similar to you, we're able to do it in a really authentic way, right, like I don't think anything we do on that podcast is scripted.
Speaker 1:Honestly probably to a fault, it's unscripted.
Speaker 1:For me, I think that's the only way I could do it, right Like I think following a script goes against my being right Like I can't I can't follow a script.
Speaker 1:And so we're able to get really, really smart people on, and I've been shocked over the years with some of the guests that we've been able to have and I look at it from a personal standpoint, almost selfishly that there aren't many opportunities to get an hour just to sit down with a really smart person and pick their brain, right, right.
Speaker 1:And so for me, I always learn something from every single guest that we have, and it's helped me in my personal life be able to implement some of those strategies or best practices and hopefully, whether it's on the business side or my personal life, be able to really implement them in a way that makes me more effective as a person. So I think, from a selfish standpoint, that's been really great for me. And then, on the other side, I think, the listeners it truly is educational, right, we're trying to make this industry a better place and when people come on our podcast, it's not a sales pitch for anything. It's really just to get on Talk Shop and be able to get those really really good ideas out to the masses so that hopefully everybody can get the same personal benefit that I do out of it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, 100% agree on that too, jay. I don't make a dime off doing a podcast, and that's not the purpose. I've gained a ton of knowledge, I've met some great people, and you go back 10 years. There was no such thing in our industry as a podcast, so you had limited ways, if you're a technician or an owner, of gaining new knowledge in different aspects of this business. Right Now it's like pick a channel, pick a. You know they're, they're all over the place and it's awesome. I love it.
Speaker 1:So hard to keep up with them, though. Right, Like even my most favorite podcasts, I, I struggle to keep up with all of them. Uh, I, I. For me, I like podcasts the most when I'm driving, and if I'm driving a lot, then I can burn through a lot of podcasts. If I'm not driving a lot, like I, I struggle to listen to a podcast while I'm working. Uh, just because I think it's my squirrel brain where I have to stay focused on what it is that's in front of me. But you know, I try really hard to listen to a lot of podcasts, just because there's so much available in terms of free resources for everybody to be able to. Just if you take the time and listen, you can always come out with something.
Speaker 3:Oh, absolutely, and it doesn't cost you nothing and you can do it at your convenience because all these things are recorded. So if you miss one, you can always go back six months later, pick it back up and and re-listen. So yeah, I get most of mine in. I do some I work out in the morning and I'll listen to at least one in the morning, but usually I'll try to do it anytime I'm driving.
Speaker 1:So yeah and on the collision side. I my my favorite podcast out of every single one other than yours, Rick.
Speaker 3:I was going to say be careful here.
Speaker 1:Other than yours is the Roadster Shops Oil and Whiskey podcast. That is like I listened to that one religiously.
Speaker 3:Oil and Whiskey I'll have to check that out. And whiskey I'll have to check that out. Well, listen, since we uh, since we first uh got together back in 2021 when you had me on your show, you know there had been an. There had started an intense uh focus in this industry about what we call the technician shortage. Right, a lot of shops complain man, I just can't seem to find a guy. And you know I can't hold on to guys and I don't know what's going on.
Speaker 3:Everybody's getting older, getting out of this thing. You know I can't hold on to guys and I don't know what's going on. Everybody's getting older, getting out of this thing. You know there's a massive gap there and we're all looking at it now, both mechanical and collision side, but I I don't know who's got the bigger gap. What are the numbers reflect in? Your primary target is mechanical and diesel. I know that, but I know you're dabbling in helping collision space and we're going to get to that as well. But what do the numbers reflect for the mechanical side of this, as far as the shortage goes?
Speaker 1:So there's numbers all over the place, right, in terms of the actual shortage. Nada's got some numbers that I think were short, like 80,000 years, something like that. Okay, nada has got some numbers that I think were short, like 80,000 a year, or something like that. And then there are other organizations that kind of forecast the need. What I'll say is, regardless of what the number is, I think everybody that's listening to this is probably having some type of pain about it, right? So you know, it's easy to go to a trade publication and read the broader number and at times that can get really scary, yeah, but I think, for for most people, if they look on their, their micro, their local level, they felt the pain and they realistically probably felt the pain for a long time now. And so you know, I think whatever that number is the true number. You know, I think whatever that number is the true number, I think we all feel it at a local level. And that's the really heartbreaking thing, because when we're struggling with this and the numbers that I do look at are more along the lines of the aging population in our industry, a lot of baby boomers exiting and with that is a lot of brain power, right there are so many
Speaker 1:people with so many years of experience that are leaving the industry because they're, you know, they've put their time in, they've, they've, they've worked, uh, for a long time. And so as that average age creeps up in the 40s, you're, you're starting to see that pain become more and more evident. And if we have less people coming in the industry, if we don't have strong school programs to be able to put more people into the industry, we have this, this huge gap that's just growing further and further and further. And I think the more we avoid it, the more we avoid trying to bring awareness to our industry, the more we avoid trying to put the work into actually building a solid foundation of people, the more painful it's going to be in the future.
Speaker 1:And I think so many of us, because we have our daily fires that we have to put out oftentimes just ignore this right and hope it goes away, and hope that we can just throw an ad on Indeed and have a line of technicians lining up to come work for us. And in reality it's just not the case anymore. It's really, really hard to find these people, and one of the things I'll do, if I'm speaking at like a conference or something is talk about. Try to gauge how much of a pain point is this in your business, and typically it's top two top issue. At least it's a top three issue in most businesses and that doesn't matter. If it's collision diesel automotive does not matter.
Speaker 1:It is a huge issue, and then I'll always follow that up by saying, okay, so if this is your one of your top issues, how much time do you spend on it? And I kind of get a begrudgingly like an hour if I need to. And so you know, I challenge a lot of people in our industry to take a different approach to it. Really look at it through the eyes of like a true CEO type of lens, which is, if you're a leader in your company, your top priority is to get good people in the building, and when you reframe your mind a little bit to think that way and not the oh, I'm going to revert back to go work on that panel in the shop, right, like I, like you, you have to have a different mentality in order to to really combat this for the longterm.
Speaker 3:Sure, you know, and there's a majority of of shop owners, both on mechanical and collision side, that were just former techs that you know had the gumption and put together their own place and you know it becomes fairly successful. But they still have that technician brain where they go. I can't do all this right now. I got to go back there and finish that car and that's such an easy out and I get that Right. But you know, at the end of the day it's not going to go away unless we progressively do something about it. And to me I see two avenues and that's growing, you know, growing people into this business that weren't in this business. And then retaining, holding on to the guys that you have.
Speaker 3:You can't keep a 62-year-old or 63-year-old technician from retiring. I mean you could try, but at that point they're going. I've done it right. But if you've got a 50-year-old that's thinking, well, god, I should probably try doing something else. I still got some good years left. I mean those are the guys you don't want to lose. Those little guys have got 30 years of industry knowledge and wisdom. Can't let those guys go. So retention, I think, is huge.
Speaker 1:I could not agree more go. So retention, I think, is huge. I could not agree more. The one thing I'll add there is, if you go and you listen to maybe an industry consultant speak or somebody talk about the fact that some of the issue comes down to the fact that maybe you have that technician running the business and I think that can be an issue. But I also look at some of the crazy, crazy talented owners in our industry and they have the technical background, but they the one thing that the really successful ones were able to do was separate their technical side from their business side.
Speaker 1:And the really great leaders in our industry, when they have that technical background, it's a beautiful thing because they they understand and they can kind of call BS in a shop if, if, maybe somebody is trying to pull something, but then when they take that to the next level and say, okay, I, I mastered being a technician, now I'm going to master being a businessman or a woman and being able to, you know, listen to those podcasts that maybe they don't overly enjoy but can learn something, or start starting to read books on business and implementing those leadership practices within their business, you know, getting a coach or getting a good personal relationship with your accountant and your attorney so that you have reliable resources to be able to go to Um.
Speaker 1:You know, I I my. My biggest point there is being that just because you were a great technician one doesn't mean that you're going to be a great leader. But it also sets one heck of a foundation that if you decide that you want to be a great leader, uh, also sets one heck of a foundation that if you decide that you want to be a great leader, you can be as good or better than anybody else in the industry. So I don't think it's a negative at all to have that technical background, as long as you are able to kind of disconnect and look at an attack, ownership or leadership as a different mindset and a different way of going about your day.
Speaker 3:You're right, you can't replace that technical knowledge that an owner should have. Right, if you're going to run a business, if you're fixing vending machines, you should probably know how to fix a vending machine before you decide I'm going to own a business that fixes vending machines, so that you know it gets that part out of the way. But you're right, there's so many opportunities to learn, whether it's through reading, whether it's going through industry events and attending some seminars, doing some stuff online, hiring a coach, hiring a mentor, regardless of your age. Those are great resources and I see, at least on the collision side, I see a lot of shops that have utilized that. You know, the guy that was a technician that's running a shop was doing a million a year, but now, because he's implemented, offloading some things, that he tries to do everything and improving his education and surrounding himself with great people that are going to help his business, and they grow to two or three million or five million or they buy three more shops, you know. So there's no limit. But yeah, it helps to have that technician background. I would agree with that.
Speaker 3:So, with respect to, like I mentioned, retention efforts, because there's a lot of focus on retention, I've seen a lot of classes on it, seminars, a lot of trainings on retention, and to me that's a huge piece, because I used to be a technician and I worked at a lot of shops that treated you like shit. Quite frankly, you were just hey, get out there, work harder, work faster, I don't care what your problems are, just get out there and work hard, right? Well, in today's age that doesn't bode well with everybody Some of us older guys. That was just what you had. Like it or love it, that's what you had to do.
Speaker 3:It's a little different feel out there now. They're realizing that if you make a better environment for your workers, more options for them as far as work hours or their environment, or the tools, having the great tools and equipment that is the latest and greatest, and having a good environment to work in, all those things make a difference in keeping people from looking down the street going oh now that guy's going to pay me five bucks more an hour, I'll just go down there. So are you seeing an impact Because I am seeing a slight impact on collision site Are you seeing an impact with retention efforts in the mechanical and diesel side?
Speaker 1:technician surveys that we did, but one of the issues that we have is that our net promoter score is going down rather than up, meaning that the level of dissatisfaction within our industry is not going in the right direction, and so I think the heartbreaking part about that for me is that I am seeing shops bend over backwards to try and make their teams happy and at some level they're they're not able to right and some of it is, I just think, all of the negative chatter amongst technicians like if you go to a social media group, you can see just the constant bickering in the back and forth and it's almost like that snowball effect where one will comment on something and a lot of times it's sarcastic in nature and then somebody else builds on that and it just kind of
Speaker 1:it does, it becomes this noise that you can't avoid. And then that goes into the shop and a physical aspect, right, if you're reading it all day, every day. And then you go into your shop and you start looking at things through a microscope, uh and and really you know, turning that bad day into a bad week, into a bad month, into a bad year, and all of a sudden you've just got this terrible attitude. A lot of it comes down to the fact that I think that the negative wins out a lot. That negative message is very, very consistent in our industry, and I've seen it in other industries too right.
Speaker 1:Like I don't think it's exclusive to us, but you know, if all you're ever hearing is that negativity, it's really powerful in a in a bad way. Now the opposite could be said as well, where I'm sure you've been in a lot of shops that just have a like just insanely good culture and people like being there and like being around each other. And you know it's it's hard to explain it on a piece of paper, but when you walk in to a shop with a good culture versus a bad culture, when you walk into a shop with a bad culture, you can just, when you walk into a shop with a bad culture, you can just kind of cut the tension with the light when you go in there oh it's not good.
Speaker 3:It's not good.
Speaker 1:But that good culture, I think, is just so different. It comes down so much to the leadership and a person's ability to lead, but then also the people in the shop. If you, if that shop doesn't have a lot of the negative narrative in it and you know that they're generally happy, of course we're all going to have bad days Like that's it doesn't matter what industry you're in, but if they're generally happy and happy around the people they're working with, it's just, it's so much easier to keep people right Because they're not miserable. And even that that part goes back to the hiring piece. Right.
Speaker 1:Because what happens when you don't pay proper attention to your recruiting efforts or your development efforts is that you end up in desperate hiring situations, which means you've got a bunch of customer in a band, you've got a lot of cars to get out the door and all you're thinking about is can this person fix cars? And then you hire that person, regardless of their personality, regardless of their attitude, and you really settle there. And when you settle, that can quickly you know, you hear it all the time like hiring one bad person can absolutely destroy your culture. Yet here we sit back and sit on our hands and just wait until we're desperate to hire somebody. Put an ad out, hire the first person that can fog a mirror right and wonder why we can't get good culture. Well, so much of it comes down to hiring in our ability to be patient and wait for the right person.
Speaker 3:And then you know, they always say, um, be slow to hire, fast to fire and yeah, holy yeah, holding onto the wrong guy for three years uh could put a huge wet blanket on top of your shop. So, absolutely, absolutely, yeah, I think uh, like you spoke about earlier, uh, the mindset and that's why I talk a lot about mindset through to my podcast is that triggers everything. So if you've got a negative mindset to begin with and believe it or not, human brain is pre-wired to go negative. It just is right Survival.
Speaker 3:But if your leadership is predominantly negative, they're going to have a negative vibe around their shop. The technicians are going to have a negative feel and when they hire people, yeah, you're right, they're going to go through people because it's like, yes, I got a warm body, let's just hire him. I don't care if the guy's an ass to everybody else, he's a good wrench, he's a good mechanic, whatever. But I see the shops that have good mindset right at the leadership level and they encourage a better culture than the average shop and your technicians will fall into that fairly easy. Or if they don't, if they're extremely negative, because there's people that are they'll never say a positive thing in their life, they're 100 negative, they will not fit there. But it is up to leadership to to start it there, to to have that positive mindset and that positive culture and you can attract a lot more with a positive uh vibe in your shop and get with that negative shop that you can attract a lot more with a positive vibe in your shop. You can't let that negative shop that you can feel as soon as you walk in, right, absolutely. So you.
Speaker 3:You mentioned the voice of the technician survey and I was going to ask you about that. So I looked through that and I don't know. You did it the previous year. You had what? Maybe 800 people the first year and like what? Five over 5,000 this year.
Speaker 3:Almost 5,000 this year almost 5,000 almost 5,000 close, yeah which is a big increase for a year. For and for those of you haven't seen it, you know, uh, go to the wrenchway uh website and look for the voice of technician. There's a report in there you can download and look at. But what it does is jay just gets out there and, uh, you know, allows the technicians to have a voice. And you know what do they like about their jobs, what do they don't like, what would they like to see in a new job? So its intent is to capture. You know, where are we as an industry? What do we need to do better as an industry? Maybe? What do we need to do less of as an industry to attract technicians, right? So looking through that and I'll let you dive into it just a little bit it's not as satisfying as you thought it would be this year, right, there's a lot more negativity.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:But isn't that you know? I thought about this after we talked initially. It's. You know. It's always the negative people that will bitch and complain If someone's doing really well in their shop. A lot of times they won't reply to a survey. That's for people that are pissed off. Life's good, I'm making good money. I like where I'm at. I don't need to do a survey. Does it seem like that's a possibility in results?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think there's something there. I think there's also a lot of truth to what we saw, right? I think some of the narrative of the negativity coming through is not. We didn't put the survey out there with that intention, right? We weren't hoping to get a bunch of negative responses. Tension, right? Like we weren't hoping to get a bunch of negative responses. That's at some level. It's discouraging for not only us but the industry when you see and read that these technicians come back and tell you that they're not very happy right now and you know this.
Speaker 1:For this year's survey, we actually teamed up with ASE on a formal partnership where we're co-branding the survey together, and that helped us be able to extend our reach. Ase has been phenomenal to work with and I think over 80% of the respondents were ASE certified, so it's experienced technicians, I know. When we first did the survey and we have this technician pay tool as well in both cases we thought we're going to put this out there and it's just going to be all entry-level people that respond to it. Like we were so worried that there weren't going to be experienced techs that responded, but what we found was it was the opposite. We got a lot of experience and I think it correlates to what we see in the industry in terms of an aging demographic and aging population of technicians. That really gave us the feedback that we're trying to move in the right direction.
Speaker 1:But we're not there yet and I think when I look at the data I don't necessarily know that it's all really, really bad.
Speaker 1:I think what I hope this survey does is that I hope it generates conversation at that individual shop level right. I hope somebody takes that report and has a meeting with their team or one-on-ones with their team to talk through some of the stuff that we came up with, to identify blind spots that leadership might have right. Maybe one of the top issues or one of the top wants with technicians from their shops is that they want properly running equipment right. Is that they want properly running equipment Right and so like. When you look at that, that seems like a pretty obvious thing, like if you're a good technician, you want the stuff, you want the proper equipment to help you do your job, and if you don't have that, it can be very frustrating because you're either trying to make a tool work that's not meant for that specific job or maybe you have that special tool you need, but guess what? It's got some broken pieces in it or software that's not updated.
Speaker 1:Whatever it is, it's a frustration. And if you consistently have those frustrations, if you're a good technician, that'll drive you nuts right, Because you're constantly looking for whatever it is that you need. And so if you're not out in the shop every single day and we talked about those former technicians turned owners or managers you can have blind spots and that's okay. But that's where communication is so key. Like if we don't have communication with our shop and the people that are boots on the ground in the shop every single day, you don't know what's going on and a lot of times you kind of have to pull it out of technicians and and being able to ask the right questions and being able to to get in the right setting, to where they'll they'll actually tell you what's wrong. Now I think we all know those technicians that'll tell you everything that's wrong all the time. That can be a little hard to be able to understand what what is actually wrong, but I think the fact that that was like the number one thing that technicians look for in an employer, other than money is, is somewhat alarming. Right, because tools, you know, with technology moving at the pace it is, and and, in a lot of ways, the amount of tools that we have it can be really really hard to keep up with.
Speaker 1:So, I think, being intentional, being able to listen to your team and, again, using that survey or whatever it is that you want to use to be able to have productive conversations with your team and say, hey, listen, this is a common complaint in our industry. How do we look here? How do we stack up versus the competition or the industry as a whole? And if you feel good about where you're at, that can be a good recruiting tool as well. Right To be able to say, hey, you know what? This is a common area where technicians aren't happy, but we feel like we do a really good job here. Or if you can be transparent when you're talking to a technician that might want to come work for you and say listen, this is an area we struggle in, but bringing you on, we think we can, we can get a little bit better here and being transparent enough to be to be real with them, because in a lot of ways, I think technicians feel like there are a lot of smoke and mirrors out there.
Speaker 1:Right, A lot of shops that will tell a technician whatever they want to hear, just to make sure that they come and work for them. So, you know that transparency, I think, can be a really, really nice thing for your current staff and potential staff.
Speaker 3:Right right now, when you did that survey and we talked about this a little bit, it's that's I think it was primarily almost maybe 90 or something or better, of automotive or automotive and mechanical diesel shops, right, for technicians that replied you had a little bit of collision, right?
Speaker 1:too small collision we need a collision okay.
Speaker 3:So that's what I was gonna ask you what you know from the collision side. I'll represent the whole side of the collision. You know what can we do to help get some inputs on that survey. If you know, if you want to share that with me ahead of time and I could, you know, post it out. All the places that I post stuff I've. Also there's a great industry resource, uh, mike anderson. I'm sure you've heard of Collision Advice Mike.
Speaker 1:Anderson.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and he does a lot of surveys. The who pays for what thing he does every quarter and he usually combines a lot of his stuff. He'll do an annual speech that he does 250 times or 300 times during the course of the year. But I think he'd be a good guy to connect with for you personally. But I think he'd be a good guy to connect with for you personally, just that maybe he's got a method where he could connect that the mechanical and the collision side as far as those kind of survey results.
Speaker 1:So that's a great point.
Speaker 1:The one thing I'll add there I think in a lot of ways the reason why we haven't really pushed for that collision side yet like we're quickly getting into that side, I think one of the reasons we hadn't in the past was because that was the one area I hadn't worked in personally, growing up Right Like I've got a lot of friends on the collision side.
Speaker 1:I love the collision side, but my personal uh, my personal experience had been on the repair and the diesel side or the automotive and diesel side of repair, and so we have some things in place that I think in the coming years will make that collision side grow really rapidly. And I think one thing that has resonated with me is that there is an appetite from the collision side to get collision more involved with what we do here at wrenchway. And you know, in the past I think we were a little hesitant and a little shy, just because I I was naive about the industry. And as I'm learning more and more and I've been to some collision conferences, like starting to know more people. You know our mutual friend cole stranberg. He's helped introduce me to a bunch of people.
Speaker 1:You know, our mutual friend.
Speaker 1:Cole Strandberg, he's helped introduce me to a bunch of people Like you've. You've shared your network with me as well and you know I I'm really really excited for what the future of our company is with the collision side and as I'm learning more and more, I'm meeting all kinds of just incredibly good people. I'm meeting all kinds of just incredibly good people, but a lot of people that also are searching for those answers and searching for why can't we get this thing figured out? And you know, I think the more and more we ingrain collision into our identity as a company, the more results we'll have on that side. So I think we're just getting started on that side, but I truly feel like we're going to grow that side really rapidly.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's actually. I mean there's becoming more of a merge too from collision into mechanical, because such an increase in mechanical operations now included in your average collision repair not even counting ADAS, those types of things just the mechanical stuff and the electronics side, that's, you know, the technology of today's vehicles. Then you add in calibrations and scanning and all those and there's a lot of mechanical stuff involved. So I'd see a natural progression of these two coming together more so. And quite honestly, jay, this is I mean, it's a huge problem, it is a global problem, it is a, you know, not just collision, not just mechanical problem. So I think the more collaboration that we can, we can do between the two sides, I think is definitely going to help all the way around I do too, and I think I'd be interested to get feedback from those of you in collision.
Speaker 1:When you read through that survey, I do think there are a lot of parallels and I think what those technicians are saying are some of the same things that we are hearing on the collision side. Even though it was a small percentage of the survey results, I think the feedback is still helpful for any collision shop that's out there, right? I think? If you read through that and off of this survey, I've been talking about how, if you were to take the top 10 things that technicians look for in an employer and then the others, how they rate their current shop and just rate yourself on those, do it however you'd like, but do a one to 10 scale on each category, which all should pretty much translate to the collision side, and do a self-assessment and be honest with yourself.
Speaker 1:I think a lot of times, issues happen when we take a little bit too much pride in something that might not be as good as we think. Right, and you know when, when we had our days on the recruiting side, that was give you one classic example, I was working with a dealership down in Louisiana and this guy, when we first did our intro call again, this is back a long time ago when we were on the recruiting side he just thought he was the greatest leader of all time and you could hear like in his voice there was a lot of pride in everything that he talked about. But then when we'd reach out to technicians to recruit for them, they said the opposite. The guy had a terrible reputation and in fact, one of our recruiters at the time got absolutely chewed out by a technician that was insulted by the fact that we would even consider reaching out on this person's behalf.
Speaker 1:And so you know, I think we all have blind spots maybe not that drastic of blind spots, but you know we. There are things and I don't care how good of a business you are there are things that you can do to improve right. There are things that you can do to treat your staff better, to be a better employer and and really work toward having that technician wear that badge with pride, right, whatever your shop's name is, and if it's on the shirt like when they go out to a restaurant or they go to have lunch somewhere that they're proud to represent your company, and if they're not, you got to work toward that. Right, you got to work toward that, otherwise you're you're just never going to successfully be able to recruit.
Speaker 3:Oh, absolutely. Hey, I just want to shift gears a little bit, because actually time is ticking away here and I knew this was going to go probably a lot longer than we planned on. So but I know you have that joint mentorship with ASC now and you guys are really focusing more on that school connection. You have something School Assist that you guys have put together, so tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, school Assist we built pretty early in Rentschway, so we started Rentschway in 2020. And I think it was 2021 that we launched it. And the crazy part about School Assist was when we launched it, we're like this is a really cool tool, we're giving it away free to schools and we just expected for it to take off. And we launched it, flipped the switch on it and it was mostly crickets.
Speaker 1:And we're like that didn't go like we thought it did, like we thought it would, and so as we went, we were really focused on the core wrenchway business, which was more of the job board piece or those top shops pages, and we got more and more customers that were telling us we love that school side but there's nothing going on out there Like if there was, that would be a really good tool for us. So we we really refocused and reallocated resources in early 2023. So, going on two years ago now, at the time we had about 150 schools on and really school assist is just a way for schools to be able to ask for stuff, right, so they can ask for somebody to come speak to their class. They can ask for consumables. A lot of times the consumables, such as shop towels or brake cleaner or whatever it might be are coming out of the instructor's pocket. They can go out and ask that and then our network of shops are able to see that and really go provide assistance for those schools.
Speaker 1:So as we launched that and we reallocated resources, we started to get more and more buy-in from the schools. We started to kind of see that snowball effect of positivity with it and I think at first the schools were a little hesitant of like what's the catch? Why is this company doing this and not charging us anything? Once we got through that piece, that's when the growth really happened right, when they started to trust us and see that there was no catch. It's just that industry wants to help these schools out and get their schools in a healthier position.
Speaker 1:That quickly grew.
Speaker 1:So to the point to where we did this partnership with ASE, got a lot more reach with School Assist.
Speaker 1:To the point to where we did this partnership with ASE got a lot more reach with School Assist and the amount of cool stories that have come out of this and the amount of really I give so much credit to the shops that are a part of our network because they really have stepped up when teachers, when instructors and when these programs need something and we're putting it on a platter so that that shop doesn't have to fight through all the administration and figure out who the right person to talk to at the school is when we serve it to them on a platter. They're delivering, they're seeing that and they're actually going out and doing things. And, for the health of our industry, I think this is the right way to go. Right. I think, focusing on the education, education side, making sure these programs don't go away, which unfortunately, on the collision side especially, we're seeing programs go away like crazy. Yeah, we need to support these people and our job at wrenchway is to hopefully be able to put that on a platter for all of our shops right.
Speaker 3:Is there a link on your website that shops can go to to see what that school says. It may be connected if they want to. They want to help, they can connect there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they can go out to wrenchwaycom. We've got a school tab out there and you can see what the program's all about.
Speaker 3:Okay, great, that's fantastic Cause, yeah, I'd like to see the collision side try to do what they can to help there as well. What could shops be doing right now? Even if you're a small shop, you're a three-man shop, one location, you're not an MSO, you're not a big dealership shop but what can little shops be doing to help towards this technician shortage? How can they do their little part to make things better? Because I know a lot of these shops that want a technician or they're needing somebody. If they've got a local trade school, they've got a local post-secondary collision program, they usually show up there sometime late April, early May, when they're just about ready to graduate and find an instructor they've never met before and go hey, got any guys that are looking for a place right, it's the absolute worst way to try to find a young technician out of a trade school. So what could you suggest that is a better route for that?
Speaker 1:Boy, am I glad you said that, right. That is. One of the biggest pet peeves of instructors is when a shop reaches out that has no relationship with them and asks for their best graduate. In a lot of cases right now, especially on the tech school side, if they're going to that program a lot of times they're sponsored going to that program, meaning that the shop is paying for their education to go there they're already employed and so when you call at graduation time, you're too late, and you're probably too late by two years, right. And so I think, first and foremost, it is building a relationship with your tech school, your local tech school, your local high school, and doing it in a way that's not just asking for stuff, right. And when I say that, a lot of times when that instructor, that school instructor, sees that shop call or walk in the doors and it is that week of graduation, it's almost this tension of like, what does this person want now? Like they're coming to me, so they obviously want something. But if you go in and you view this truly as kind of a networking type of ordeal, it doesn't matter what size business you are. All it takes is growing a relationship with an instructor and if you're in that tech school, that high school and they say, hey, listen, especially high school programs, right now they have no budget Going in. And when that instructor confides in you that they're struggling to get interest in the class, that they're struggling to get people to actually want to come take that class, maybe you can go over with some equipment and do a demo for them. Maybe you can bring those students on a field trip through your shop and do some type of demo to provide that visibility.
Speaker 1:I think a lot of young people, if they actually knew what we did on the collision side, would be fascinated by it.
Speaker 1:And and when they see the career opportunities that are in this business, you know, I think that might speak more to the parents, at least initially.
Speaker 1:But painting can be pretty cool, bodywork can be pretty cool, right, like if, if you actually expose them to what it is. The problem is a lot of them just have no exposure to what it is, that we do whatsoever, only program. So you need to look into ways via job shadow, apprenticeship programs, whatever it is, to be able to get young people in your doors. But the more you can focus on that, the more you can focus on that school relationship as a whole and maybe getting them some, some old parts that you were going to throw in the dumpster that they can then go and tear apart in the class. And oh, by the way, you with your technical aptitude, if you can go in and help show them how to do something with that, you can really have a positive impact on an instructor's life, on a student's life and ultimately, at the end of the day, your life, because you're going to have more people involved in the program and more people that want to come work for you.
Speaker 3:Excellent excellent ideas and I, I a hundred percent agree on those. I've got a shop I know of that a couple of times a year. He just he's the owner of shop and he'll go to the local high school and you know they'll. They look for speakers to come in and you don't have to be a speaker. You should say I mean, these are, you know, 15, 16, 17 year old kids. If you're a 35 or 40 year old man, you're a speaker, right? So you come in and talk a little bit about the industry, maybe a little bit what collision shop or mechanical shop's like, and there's going to be some kids that really latch onto that. Oh, that sounds really cool. How do I do more, Right? And I think, as you build that relationship, maybe you go there a couple of times during the year. Maybe offer them a shop tour. Hey, if you've got, you know, five or six kids that really want to see what a collision shop does, man, bring them down, We'll have lunch, We'll have, you know, we'll make it fun for them or whatever. But it's those little things you do along the path, I think, will earn you that ability to go in close to graduation time, to go oh, hey, it's so-and-so from so-and-so shop and he goes hey, any young guys have been to my shop? If they're still interested, we'd love to bring our board on an apprenticeship program or, you know, you know a part-time, whatever it, it at least opens that doorway.
Speaker 3:Cause, as a job, you know, I had a-secondary school that I actually taught at for a while. I had a collision program. We had a couple high schools in our area that had collision programs and it never failed. Late spring I'd always have collision shop owners and managers ask me hey, is so? And so they got any good guys over there. I'm like, when's the last time you were at a uh, at a board meeting there, an advisory board board? Well, what is that? You know what I mean. So it's, yeah, work ahead of time and you might have some luck at the end of the day.
Speaker 1:So I think that the number one message I'd have out of that is our industry often focuses on that one person, right, the one technician, the one student that's going to come work for us and we're hoping to develop into a quality technician at some point. What my challenge to the industry is is focus on that one program, rather than that one student. You need that program to be healthy. You need that source and that future pipeline of technicians to be very, very strong, because if you, if you don't have that initial seed, you're never going to get anything out of what you're you know you're, if you're just focused on that, one student all the time, you're just going to chase your tail forever.
Speaker 1:If you can focus on that program, make that program a powerhouse, however you can, you're going to have more success. I can guarantee it.
Speaker 3:Sure yeah, you got to invest, you got to give. To get right, you got to give to get, so that's excellent.
Speaker 3:Well, I know we're coming up on an hour here, jay and Alex, I could do this for another half hour, 45 minutes or two hours, I don't care, but the listeners aren't going to stay on that long. So do you have any other anything great, any new news? That's before we go. That's that's happening with Renshway. I know we talked a little bit about a couple of things you got going, anything you want to share with the audience.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we've got some things that we're not ready to announce yet, some that I think will have a significant impact on the collision side of our business and the collision industry in general. Hopefully, within the next couple of months, we'll have the ability to announce publicly, but we've gotten so much momentum with the school side and I think one of the really cool parts about that is that, rather than pitting one shop against another which I think a lot of times happens in general, recruiting the school piece is we need all hands on deck, right Like we need everybody to be involved with these programs If we want to make them the powerhouses that we believe they can become. It's going to take everybody. It's not one shop, it's not one MSO, it's not one dealership group, it's everybody. We need everybody involved in schools, and, whether that's through Wrenchway or not, you have to get involved with your schools, and so I think what we do with our tool allows for a streamlined way of doing that, and I think, as we grow and evolve, we've got some just really incredible things in the works and we've signed some deals with some of the OEMs and their dealer networks that I think not think I know is immediately going to have a huge impact on schools across the country. And I don't want just OEs involved, right, I want that three-person shop to be involved with their school. I want that 50 location MSO to be involved. I truly think that that's the way forward for our industry.
Speaker 1:And so, you know, I think our school piece continues to expand.
Speaker 1:I think the reason it's expanded is because we've been able to get a lot of interest around it, and I think, for the most part, everybody wants to help the schools, everybody wants to help get more people in this industry, because I think it does fight the foundational issue that our industry has had now for several decades. It's just now. We need the execution side, right. We can't just say that we want to develop people. We actually have to develop people and we have to have systems in place to do so. And so, as Wrenchway evolves, I think we'll continue to come out with different forms of data to be able to better educate the industry on how we get better. I think we'll be able to allow more and more tools to get people involved with schools and hopefully, at the end of the day, I think we'll be able to allow more and more tools to get people involved with schools and hopefully, at the end of the day, I think our desire is just to have a really positive impact on the industry, and that's what we work toward every day.
Speaker 3:Well, that's awesome and it's really, really appreciated. Jay, I know personally all the stuff that you're doing to help bridge the gap, to help you, to help pull all this together, and I know it's a big job. So, anything we can do to help you, we're here for you. So it's going to take a lot of collaboration. I think it's going to take a lot of people pulling in the same direction, but I think there's no better time than right now. To whether you're a shop, like you said, a small shop, mso, dealership, whatever, now is a great time to get involved.
Speaker 3:So, ask those questions, ask where you can help, ask where you can donate. Reach out to Jay. I'll leave the link for his website as well as his podcast, If you want to reach out to Jay. If you've got any additional questions, he's always available, always happy to answer questions and be part of the solution. So, jay, I can't thank you enough for being on today. It's been a pleasure and I think we'll have to do this again, probably relatively soon. So there's a lot more stuff I want to get to, if we just have time for it today.
Speaker 1:I appreciate you having me on. I always enjoy our conversations, whether we're recording or not. I think the world of what you do, and really your heart to get the industry in a better place, I think is such a cool thing and it's genuine too. It's not just doing it for selfish business reasons. I think when I talk with you, you can tell that your heart wants to see this industry move in a better place and it's because of people like you that we will get this industry in a better place.
Speaker 3:Well, I hope so At least before I'm gone. I'm not getting any younger. Let's go, people, come on, let's get moving. Hey, thanks again, jay, and you know people are going to hear this. It's going to be after the holidays, but tomorrow is Christmas Eve, so I want to wish you and your family a very Merry.
Speaker 1:Christmas. It sounds good. Merry Christmas to you and yours as well.
Speaker 3:Thank you, I appreciate it. Well, I hope you enjoyed what Jay shared with us this week and maybe picked up on a few helpful tips on how you can start making your shop a more desirable place to work and start planting those seeds with your local high schools and trade schools and start the groundwork of growing your future techs. If you want more information on the subject, be sure to connect with Jay at Wrenchway. I'll leave all the links in the show notes. Thanks again for tuning in. I really appreciate your support and I hope you have a great week. I can always be reached at wwwrixelovercom, where you can find all my social media links podcast episodes, blog posts and much more. Bye.
